focus on the process of creation

[jh]

Meta: the discussion
Actually I am very happy to hear about the intention to write a pirate manifest. But on the other hand I am scared that the discussion takes place in a single thread. This is not only ugly to read but also less productive (at least for me).

It should be the minmum to split each concern in a single thread. Complex issues should be seperated even more. There should be seperate discussion
a) about the intention of the document
b) about the process of how to create that document, make it final and public
c) about restrictions, stances, should, must, may, ... in wich way should the rules be defined (how fuzzy, how many, how obligatory)
d) the rules itself

How and where to meet
Regarding b) about the process of how to create that document, make it final and public I wish a broad process not only including forum and wiki but also tighter communication. This might be chattering workgroups, enduring phonecalls or a number of real life meetings (not necessary everybody with everybody else. just a weekend of face to face work).

Terms: manifest and principles
At the moment both terms are mixed as far as I can see (and refer to the same). I think we should split them (or if we keep both in one document put them into different sections).

The manifest (according to me) should be the progressive idea core of our movement. It should formulate close and far utopia. It should proclaim the most abstract values and ideas in a straightforward manner. And it should transport the intention to be the declaration of the freedom of the mind (example title). It should not deal with daily politics.

The "Principles of a pirate party" instead should be a catalog of do's and don'ts (and would, should,could,whatever) with the aim
a) to (help) constitute(-e/ing) a european pirate party (hopefully an acceptable (neutral?) umbrella for all european pirate parties)
b) to decide what a pirate party is and what not

It could contain sharper stances and be oriented towards current politics (e.g. a position regarding the planned european data retention).

[Donatien]

There should be seperate discussion
a) about the intention of the document
b) about the process of how to create that document, make it final and public
c) about restrictions, stances, should, must, may, ... in wich way should the rules be defined (how fuzzy, how many, how obligatory)
d) the rules itself

I agree absolutely

I wish a broad process not only including forum and wiki but also tighter communication. This might be chattering workgroups, enduring phonecalls or a number of real life meetings (not necessary everybody with everybody else. just a weekend of face to face work).

This sounds nice, but seems difficult. Think about people from Australia, for instance I think forum is a good place also, because what is said is written also. Anyway, chatting should be use as a complementary help, of course.

The manifest (according to me) should be the progressive idea core of our movement. It should formulate close and far utopia. It should proclaim the most abstract values and ideas in a straightforward manner. And it should transport the intention to be the declaration of the freedom of the mind (example title). It should not deal with daily politics.

Great! I proposed the same to spanish people. I talked about "freedom of information" as a main idea. I also defend that it should be a philosophical text, and should not be written thinking about daily politics.

The "Principles of a pirate party" instead should be a catalog of do's and don'ts (and would, should,could,whatever) with the aim
a) to (help) constitute(-e/ing) a european pirate party (hopefully an acceptable (neutral?) umbrella for all european pirate parties)
b) to decide what a pirate party is and what not

It could contain sharper stances and be oriented towards current politics (e.g. a position regarding the planned european data retention).

Absolutely right Some people mix both texts, which I think is a big error. I hope this way could be changed and we could work for separate texts, a manifest and a principles declaration.